No Rest For The Wicked
Yeah, so I took last Friday and Monday off work so that I could relax for a couple of days, and just get a nice four day weekend in for myself and my wife. Relaxing? Fuck that, I spent two days shopping for a car I’ll hardly ever drive, one day running from wasps while trying to mow the back yard (the lawnmower’s still out there), and one day shopping at the mall – and not buying the one thing I did need. All in all, my relaxing weekend turned into tired feet and way too much adrenaline.
Fuck’s sake, one of these days I’m going to get a day off and it’s going to be all about me. Getting my shit done. Doing what I want by myselfF. At this rate it’ll probably be my funeral, and I know somebody’s going to make me dress up nice for that. So I get nothing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my wife made me do all this stuff. we were just hanging out. She’s fucking great. It all had to get done, you know? I'm glad I had her to do it with.
Meh, what am I complaining about anyway? What a fucking baby. Birth school work death, I’m at stage three. I’m almost done. I just gotta make it through the next 40 or 50 years, and even less if I keep smoking. Like the song says, I need to cling to something. Gimme my gold watch bitches, because I might not be here tomorrow to pick it up. I guess I had a pretty good long weekend…
Ever find yourself almost wishing for illness or a migraine just so you don’t have to be at the office? Ever feel like your life is trickling away while you waste your time with bullshit day to day tasks that are less than meaningless? Ever want to put your head through the plaster and pray you find a hidden 2X4, just to get away from the gnawing erosion of your soul known as Every Day?
Yeah, me too.
But you know, everything is relative. Put my head through a wall? Sure, I’ve thought about it. Have my spine severed? Mmm, not so sure. What am I getting at here? I’m getting at the fact that, as boring or mundane as your life might be… as much as you might crave excitement in your life, sometimes things are better left alone and you are better off not getting what you asked for.
I’m kind of talking about a movie I saw last weekend, one that I mentioned in my last new post. I’m talking about Wolf Creek. This is a great movie for people who love horror movies but haven’t had much stress in their lives lately. This is a movie for people who need a little fear but don’t get scared by demons or vampires; this is a movie about things that actually happen, or could happen. And as a lot of us have said, it’s that type of movie that is the creepiest of all.
Most horror movies dwell in the realm of fantasy. As a result, they may give you a few jumps here and there, but for the most part it’s obvious fiction. If you can get scared by such things then I have a little envy of your perspective. I thought The Ring was an alright movie, but I heard more than a couple of people say that they were afraid of their televisions for a week or so after viewing it. Man, if The Ring scares you like that, then I want to live in your world, where the sun is blue, asparagus tastes good and ghostly interactions are a matter of fact. Cuz that shit don’t happen.
On the other hand, as creepy as such movies can be (if you suspend your disbelief from a meathook in the basement and leave it there for a week or so), they don’t have anything on the much shorter list of movies that are either based on fact, or are psychotically sensible enough to conceivably take place here in the world with the yellow sun.
Wolf Creek falls into the latter of the two categories, and is reminiscent of other such “it could happen” movies like The (original) Texas Chainsaw Massacre, I Spit On Your Grave, Cabin Fever and so on. But it is much more real than those other three. There are parts that are obviously fabricated here, but the movie is based on fact, on real events. Well, it is and it isn’t. It’s based on fact in the same way that TCM was (and has an atmosphere that's similar in a lot of ways). Inspired by real events but hardly a documentary. So that’s what you’re going into here. It’s not proven to be true but it could be as true as anything else you read in the paper every day. And that’s where it hits you. You read the paper, you come across some disgusting crime story about rape and torture and murder, you say eww and move on. But not here… at Wolf Creek you will be given about as much detail as you can handle.
So here’s the story; as much as I can give you without ruining the movie anyway. Three friends, two British girls and an Australian guy, hanging out and partying on vacation. The guy, Ben, has just bought a crappy car that they’re going to use for road tripping. They load up and take off for Wolf Creek, the site of one of the biggest meteorite craters on the planet (it’s actually Wolfe Creek, but, you know…). The movie takes its time here, letting you get to know the characters a little. Far from boring if you’re into that thing; I find it really helps the viewer once the dying starts. Anyway, it’s a three hour hike to the crater, three hours back, and it’s getting pretty late by the time they get back to the car. Which won’t start. And they’re in the middle of fucking nowhere.
So they’re sitting in the car, in the dark, trying to figure out what to do but eventually realizing that their only choice is to bunk down and wait for someone to come along. And the someone who comes along is a guy by the name of Mick Taylor, who seems pretty nice overall. A bit of a hick but a very friendly dude who offers to tow them back to his place where he can get their car going again. They don’t really have much of a choice so they say fuck it and take the offer.
So he hitches them up and starts driving. And driving and driving and driving. The three in the car take turns napping and talking, trying not to get nervous about being so damn helpless and ignorant and vulnerable.
And they finally, finally, get to Mick’s camp, which is an abandoned mining site. According to Mick there are places like it all over the Outback, where companies move equipment into the middle of nowhere, set up shop and just abandon it all at the end – it’s more expensive to dismantle and move the equipment than to just buy new stuff for the next job. A pretty good setup overall… They sit around the campfire for a while, shoot the shit, and the three travelers eventually go to sleep while Mick starts working on the car.
The next thing we see is one of the girls, Liz, as she regains consciousness the following afternoon. She’s tied up in a storage shed. That’s when she starts to realize her situation. And the more she learns, the less you have to chew on at the end of your fingers. And yes, oh yes, you will curse the suspense.
That’s as far into the story as I want to go right now. I don’t want to give any direction to the twists and turns in this movie. I want you to be thrown just like I was. But I will tell you that most of the requisite horror movie rules are thrown out the window, and that makes the viewer feel vulnerable too. You know that feeling you get when something bad is going to happen, and you know that it’s going to happen, but you can’t stop your heart from beating faster even though it’s only a movie? Yeah, it’s just like that except for the middle part, the one part that makes us feel in control. Who lives, who dies, who gets caught and who gets away? I’m not tellin’, but you’ll get at least one surprise there.
This movie has received mixed reviews, but both verdicts point to the graphic violence. Some people thought it was one of the most disgusting, gratuitously violent movies ever made, and hated it as a result. Others loved it for the exact same reason. And that’s just it. You either get it or you don’t. You’re not supposed to kick back and watch the story unfold; you’re supposed to be on the edge of your seat, cursing your adrenal gland while you keep watching, and then let it prod that gland a little more. How much can they take? How much can you take?
No demons, no magic, no titties, no zombie-shark throwdowns, nothing but the middle of nowhere and the same old battle between good and evil. And it’s one of the best, creepiest, skin-crawlingest movies I’ve seen in a long time. And you get to hear a spine being severed with a hunting knife… kinda sounds like a chicken wing.
Have you ever cursed suspense and tension? Have you ever watched a movie, wiping the sweat from your hands as you curse the screen for putting you through it all? Well now you know what you’re in for, and that puts you at a distinct advantage over those three kids.
I won’t even get into the ending, which is about as climactic as an ending can be while still being anticlimactic.
Dan likes to talk about climaxes.
Don't Go In There Archives
use of a chainsaw. There’s this one guy who is way more bad news than any horror villain who has ever appeared onscreen, including some prepubescent chick who pisses on the carpet at parties and stabs herself in the crotch with crap from the parish gift shop. That act was, like, so 1973.
Franklin takes a spill on the side of the road? Sure thing! Should we laugh when the poor crippled guy in the wheelchair goes ass over tits down a hill and spills a jar of piss all over himself? Of course not. Wait, that’s the same scene. Mom always told me not to laugh at people with physical handicaps but Franklin was fucking asking for it, okay? Who the hell starts poking at a van’s interior with a knife for the hell of it? Who the hell thinks that the best way to find a lost person is to wait for them to find you? Who the hell thinks that a wheelchair will work as well in the woods as it will on pavement? Who exactly had a few things in common with the hitchhiker, such as knives and an interest in slaughterhouses? FRANKLIN! I’m not laughing at Franklin because he was handicapped, I’m laughing at Franklin because he was a fucking dolt. That chainsaw in the chest was long overdue and a welcome relief from the hell they call The Life Of Franklin Hardesty.
And nothing is for no reason either! When I realized that we couldn’t watch The Beyond, I started looking for something else. I was just about to mention Wolf Creek to my wife when she came across a horror classic on TV that was just about to start. One that I’d never seen in its entirety and had always felt like a bit of a goof for missing.
Anyway, I was riding my bike when I saw a wasp coming right at me. Without thinking I swerved to the right and landed tits up on the grass. Which was just as well because I needed a break after that, man. I mean, did you see that thing? It was HUGE!
I don’t remember being stung by one. I don’t remember being scared by one as a kid, or seeing anyone else being particularly afraid of one, or anyone else being stung by one and having a bad reaction to it. I don’t have any rational explanation for it at all. I do know that I’ve always been afraid of them, and I do know that the fear has grown over the years. I’m more afraid of them now than when I was a kid. I act like a kid around them now. And it’s shameful to me; I know a wasp sting sucks but doesn’t hurt that much, and I’ve been in more dangerous situations in the past, but that one thing just makes me shit myself.
<
He was inspired by Dawn and came up with a semi-sequel. Some people hated it but some people love it. It’s on my top ten list for unnecessary nudity, extreme gore and a dead cop. It’s almost too good. It’s so good that I want to save the details for another day. This is about you finding something good to watch this month, and I gave you that right here.
Well that’s kind of dirty, I thought to him. He jumped back up and started punching the air with his finger, emphasizing the words he felt were most important.
There was one time when my girlfriend couldn’t make it as my sidekick. Now, the real Barney on TV has an actual sidekick, this annoying fucker by the name of Baby Bop, but you had to pay extra if you wanted that shit at your party. The Barney-and-a-sidekick package came with Barney and either a clown or a chipmunk. Not a famous chipmunk or anything, just a fucking chipmunk. So whoever came along with me had to be versatile, don’t you know. They might have to switch personas two or three times an afternoon, depending on how busy we were.
So, right towards the end of my career in this bullshit, we hit the Christmas season. Barney’s Christmas season starts in late October and early November, as soon as offices and corporate organizations start having Christmas parties. Christmas season was a pretty good time, overall. Lots and lots of parties meant lots and lots of gigs for me, a gas allowance in the party van, and paid in cash as often as not. Yeah, it could definitely be a pain in the ass from time to time. That costume was hot as hell and stunk worse. Having to deal with angry parents who’d rather try and settle the bill with Barney than the actual person they’d made the deal with. I mean, complaining to the cashier in the department store is one thing – well, not really, but holy shit, grown men trying to talk seriously to fucking Barney about previous financial agreements that may or may not have been honoured. Jesus.
Barney’s stomach is not where my fucking stomach is. He’s a seven foot chubby dinosaur and I was a six foot two skinny pothead. If you’re the height of a nine year old and you punch Barney in the stomach, you’re punching me right in the nutsack. Yeah, like you didn’t see that coming. I fucking didn’t. And he got me good and it hurt like only a punch in the nutsack can. And I doubled over, and by then another kid had come over, and he started punching Barney in the head. Barney’s head is not my head. That actually wasn’t so bad because my head was protected pretty well, but the Barney head reverberated with this nasty tone. It was like having a washtub banged over your head. It didn’t hurt but it was fucking annoying.
So I had to wear makeup and shit, funny hat, red nose, all that stuff. I had a goatee or something on my face, but they didn’t make me shave it. Have you ever seen a clown with any kind of facial hair at all? I know some kids that have and I’m not so sure they liked it. In fact I know they didn’t. Neither did their parents. They didn’t like my brother showing up at their house smelling like yesterday's rum either, but that's another stupid story.
By the time I got forced into another costume I’d become rather disillusioned with being told what to do (I’d also seen the other costumes that the Ladie’s Auxiliary club had put together and they all sucked, except for this one paper mache cow head that I eventually stole and used all the time, but only while on acid). This time though, Mary Brown’s was specifically mentioned as a reward so I was cool with it, and was maybe even a touch enthusiastic. And the costume was cool alright…… The
I'm going to have to cover his movies over a few weeks, so what do you want to hit first? Well, The Fly is a classic, isn’t it? A well done remake of the 1958 classic, with a lot more special effects and gross disgusting fluids. Seth Brundle was a scientist who was working on a teleportation…. Um…
Oh, it’s celebrated alright, and then some. Particularly among strict Irish Catholics, who view it as the only legitimate break from Lent (Lent being an annual period of forty days when some Catholics punish themselves for being Catholic, as well as for the forty days that Jesus spent in the desert with himself in a way that most of us wouldn’t bother with), which means an excuse to party while commemorating Jesus’ self-imposed starvation.
The devil takes up a lot of space in our culture. I mean, religion takes up a huge amount of our culture; even if we don’t go to church or believe, we’re surrounded by those who do. And the devil takes up a lot of space in most of the religions we deal with. Not all of them, but, you know. A few of them.
Something evil that will sting me. So I run. And my behaviour is more than a little reminiscent of a little girl, about four or five years old, running away from something that might actually be harmful. I am shamed every time I leave my house and meet a wasp. Have you ever lived in shame with yourself? Have you ever lost your shit, entirely, over a fucking bug?
directed by Dario Argento. I’d be surprised if I hadn’t mentioned this one before now. The movie has a lot of holes in it, stretching logic to its limit time and again for our entertainment. 
Burial Ground (Nights Of Terror) – 80
It’s a David Cronenberg movie and that should be enough. If that’s not enough, then please be advised that a dude’s head explodes in one of the more famous horror scenes in history. Cronenberg is not your usual horror guy; you don’t need drugs to find cool societal statements. And if you’re not into that kind of thing then you can just watch the carnage.
Stevie King got busy in 83, no? I have never seen Christine, I liked Cujo okay (cuz, you know, anything with Danny Pintauro is okay), but The Dead Zone was the best of this group. Martin Sheen, Christopher Walken, babies being used as shields…. The missiles are flying, hallelujah!
He played Patch on Days Of Our Lives. Don’t look at me like that, Patch is a completely relevant 80’s soap icon. Besides, I had to look up his name. You knew exactly who I was talking about.
Pet Sematary – 89
A Clockwork Orange – 71
By today’s standards it’s still a pretty creepy movie, and if you’re traditionally religious, like pious, then this will scare the shit out of you. You shouldn’t watch it. I first saw it when I was about twelve, and yeah, it was fucking creepy. The scariest thing for me at the time was the thought that my parents might find out that I’d seen it. Statements like Let Jesus Fuck You and Your Mother Sucks Cocks In Hell, they didn’t go over too good at my house. I’m glad for that guidance though, because it makes the bad things seem worse and that is more fun. And this movie is fun. Pissing in public and priests kissing concrete. Get the poor girl a jackhammer Jesus…. No, take the crucifix away, she’s not even old enough to be doing that.
Anyone seen this? It’s one of those movies that could have been great, but lost something along the way….. but is still great. I don’t know how many will agree with me on that, so I’ll add that it sucks. Good intentions that got screwed. One thing I know, if they had edited just three more minutes out of this movie, it wouldn’t make any sense at all. Character development is really fucking minimal. The plot is tight enough for a horror movie, but we all know how loose those standards are. The story is about a psycho who hangs out in online chat rooms (be careful out there) and lures teenage girls to his house. Where he tortures and kills them. A cop’s daughter gets taken by Captain Howdy (yeah, that’s what he calls himself, like Satan in The Exorcist), so the cop saves his daughter and gets the psycho thrown in the mental for four years. 
The laws of horror stupidity apply really well to a zombie movie. You see, if you’re smart you can stay alive for a long time, but no matter what you do, you’re most likely going to be eaten anyway. Zombies can’t run because their bodies are all rotted and shit, but that’s okay. They’re able to take their time because they have eternity to catch you. Zombie movies usually have that sense of inevitable doom. You will run out of places to go and they’ll probably get you. It’s going to spread, everyone may be turned and the world as we know it might end. But every minute, there’s an idiot born who will die before you.


Malachai – Children Of The Corn
Slumber Party Massacre
Return Of The Living Dead
A week or two ago I mentioned a movie called Fear No Evil, an early 80’s movie about Satan in high school and I caught myself thinking about the first time I saw it. I was about 11 or 12 years old, I guess, and my Dad was in the next room. I’d only rented the movie because it was about Satan and it had a good soundtrack, but somehow my very religious Dad overheard Johnny Rotten say that he was an Antichrist. He came into the living room to see what I was watching, just in time for the scene where a guy pulls his pants down and runs after his girlfriend in the high school boiler room. Dad made me turn it off. No smut in his house, no sir.
The first time I saw Prom Night 2, it was at the theatre with my first serious girlfriend. We’d been going out for about four months, man, it was crazy. Never thought I’d get tied down like that. Anyway, we hardly saw any of the movie because we were busy making out and doing the stuff that horny kids sometimes do in the movie theatre (playing with each other’s genitals). And she’d started her period that evening without realizing it, and we both got blood on our clothes. The situation reminded me of a kid in my class who once got caught picking his nose and eating it when his pen leaked ink and left the evidence. It was obvious what we’d been up to. I had a couple of big red smears on my jeans from wiping my hand off, and a few more on my shirt from when I wiped the popcorn butter off – I tried not to think about that too much. She had bloodstains too, mostly on and about the crotch of her pants. Maybe a little on her shirt. I was just happy that everyone had to walk in the same direction to get out of the theatre and didn’t look at the front of us. Of course, we then had to decide between getting the bus home or calling one of our parents for a ride. We walked.
Last Saturday I was out in front of my house, drinking beer and putting up Christmas decorations. I had one of those reindeer that light up and pretend to eat stuff, and I was putting it right between two bushes when a thorn broke off in one of my fingers. A nasty splinter, but I didn’t notice right away, not until I felt an itch and scratched it. Fuck’s sake! Isn’t it weird how little things seem to hurt more than big things? Fucking splinters. Hell, my Dad caught a metal splinter in his eyeball a few weeks ago, and he’s already blind in the other eye. Dealing with metal in your eye is one thing, but adding blindness to the unaffected eye would make the ordeal that much worse, that much more psychological. “Holy fucking shit, what if I fuck up this eye too?? Am I gonna be totally fucking blind for the rest of my life? Jesusjesusjesus, oh shit my fucking eye.” Closing one eye in pain and not seeing anything. 




They’re, like, half a mile underground, lost, and this chick can’t even scratch her face because the fucking planet won’t let her. The Earth is pinning her arms to her sides. A stronger sense of helplessness you’ll be hard pressed to find on the surface in the human world. The scene is shot really well but it’s the overall atmosphere that makes the scene, and the movie, stick with you long after it’s over.
Feel the uncertainty of the city council. Feel the camaraderie of the crew on the boat, having a few drinks and singing a few songs. Feel the barely restrained panic as you realize that Quint has read way too much Hemingway and is not going back to that fucking shore without that shark. And if he can’t do it, he’s taking you with him. Your heart’s in your throat as you watch Brody sitting on a sinking stick with the shark heading right for him. Two hours later, you can finally breathe. Now that’s atmosphere. 

Dude, this is one of the coolest zombie movies I’ve ever seen, and not for the usual reasons. It’s a great movie but it’s a little more than that….. they’re just a touch more obvious in their social commentary (which is in just about every zombie movie you’ve seen or are likely to see). Made by dirty hippies for sure. It has this big, in you face subplot about the evils of progress and its effect on society. In the opening scene there are multiple shots of exhaust pipes and people wearing face masks to protect themselves from the air pollution caused by their all too rapid progress that threatens their very existence, blah fuckidy blah. It’s lame but it’s great too. It’s just a cool little snapshot of the culture of the time, and the ideas that the filmmakers had.
Okay, this movie isn’t the best, it’s horribly 80’s with the bad hair and the dated clothes and the college setting and the guys looking for strippers and the Asian nerd and oh my, it must be fun. Grace Jones plays the head vampire(ss), and if you think that’s scary then wait until you meet the lead character, a dude by the name of Chris Makepiece. Maybe you know him; I think the height of his career was Meatballs. Or maybe My Bodyguard….. No! Mazes & Monsters! That’s my choice, the height of his career was Mazes and Monsters (and it sucked). Oh shit, I forgot about The Falcon & The Snowman. Meh, with crap like that behind you, nobody’s going to remember the one time you acted with Sean Penn except you.
Man oh man, Northern Ontario has some wild stuff hanging out in the forest. I saw lots of deer and foxes, a bobcat I think, two bears, a spider that was about an inch and a half long in the body, and that guy moved like a motherfucker too. Although I would move like that myself if the whole sky suddenly turned into the sole of a size twelve doc. Still, I think he scared me more than I did him, and I killed him. Shows you what a baby I am when it comes to big and unusual spiders. Regular spiders are fine but you know what? If I don’t know you and you look like a mean bug, then I’ll assume as much and stomp you. I’m not so tough that I wouldn’t care about the baseball sized, rock textured lump your cousin gave my friend a few years ago when you bit him, and I ain’t taking the chance on you giving me the same gift.
But it’s the woods, the forest, the country that seems to get to us the most. Probably because it’s just not our element anymore. We’ve given it up for something more comfortable, and now half of us are scared to walk comfortably in the woods at night.
One of the best movies to portray that feeling is the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but only towards the end, when the surviving cast members are realizing that something is definitely very wrong and that they have to look for their friends. The entire movie is set in the Texas countryside and I think that the movie (and ones that followed it) had a lot to do with bringing these fears out in people. The feeling of being in the middle of nowhere and royally fucked sums it all up. It just isn’t home and home is safe and I want to go home now.
This is one of the most obvious so let’s get it out of the way first. Made in 1973 and still scaring the hell out of viewers, it’s on everyone’s list of classics. There must be a reason for it.
characters. This movie is hardly regarded as a great one, and I’m inclined to agree with that, but there are scenes in this movie that are definitely worth watching if you can stay awake long enough. There is a shock value to this one that makes it a contender. For example, there is one scene that was cut to avoid a complete banning of the movie – don’t worry, they put it back in later.
I haven’t seen the remake yet so I ain’t going there. Suffice it to say that although this movie has been slagged over the years, it was one of the greatest movies to present the devil incarnate to the people of this earth. Not exceptionally gross or disgusting, it has held its place because of good direction and a good story. We all know it.
This one was directed by Alan Parker, whose credits include Pink Floyd: The Wall, Angela’s Ashes and Mississippi Burning. All good movies and all different genres, so you know this guy has his head screwed on right. He makes his mark with this one and I don’t understand why it’s not a lot more popular. Angel Heart stars Mickey Rourke (who does a fanfuckingtastic job, I don’t care what you think of him as a person), Robert DeNiro (as Louis Cyphre, also doing an excellent job) and Lisa Bonet (from The Cosby Show, but only for a while after this movie was made. Seems Bill Cosby wasn’t exactly enamoured with Lisa doing a nude sex scene with a white dude while blood rained on them from the ceiling - yeah, that’s a different world alright.
Like atmosphere and story, for example. John Carpenter takes his time and builds up the suspense and tension so that you’re biting your fingernails down to the second knuckle by the end. There’s not really anything disgusting in this one, but again, they hold you by the throat until the end of this movie and that’s what it’s all about. As a matter of fact, they hold you by the throat after the movie ends, because you don’t know where the hell Michael Myers went! He should have died from his injuries, but he got up after that fall and walked away. Where did he go? Well, you’ll have to watch the sequel to get the answer to that one. 

That’s up there with Jaws and Halloween in terms of memorable scores. A hell of a lot better than the stupid ass song they’re singing around the campfire in the opening scene. Summer camp movies are the best, aren’t they? Anything set in the woods has potential.
Are we jaded now or were we naïve then? Doesn’t matter if the movie’s good.
Sorry to have stolen so much of your hash and weed over the years, by the way. If it makes you feel any better, we pinched off your ex husband too.
My favourite part in the whole damn movie, the part I never miss, is when the biker chick is wandering around in the barn. She stumbles across an old canteen hanging on the side of a stable; she picks it up and looks at it for a second, shakes her head with a “well I’ll be damned” look on her face and slaps the canteen to confirm its existence. Yeah, believe it baby, a real live canteen. She dies soon after that. 

The school itself was just like you’d expect an old Catholic school to look like: all hardwood from floor to ceiling, huge pillars, massive arches with windows, some of those windows with stained glass frames depicting assorted scenes of biblical cruelty. The whole place was darkly beautiful – I know, but what else would you call it? It was beautiful like the face of God beaming through stained glass, but it was dark as Hell. It’s hard to describe the Old School Catholic experience and now isn’t the time, but growing up in that environment made me the person I am, for better and worse. Maybe I believe in God and maybe I don’t, it’s not the time for that either, but what I will tell you is that I believe in good and evil. A youthful fear of God made those movies with demons and vampires seem that much more unholy, and therefore cooler.
They seem to have made a bit of a comeback in the last few years – Dawn Of The Dead remake, Land Of The Dead, Shaun Of, that crappy one based on a video game that I won’t even mention by name and so on.